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>console storage and memory prices have increased by more than 2.5x and we expect another doubling by the fall of 2027

As a millennial I love that every year has a "once in a lifetime" event


Sometimes I wonder if this is what the fall of a civilization looks like

Not with a bang but a whimper?

Will we ever get a break for good times?


That was the previous round, which Microsoft also did. There have been 3 or 4 such price increases this generation.

So did Microsoft already! They can always do more.

It’s a permanent price hike

Eventually supply and demand will get back in a better balance and we will probably see prices rise slower than inflation until adjusted for inflation prices are close to to where they were before but the actual dollar price isn’t likely to go down.


> this is also illegal

So is unregulated gambling but Valve doesn't care either lol


2 wrongs don't make a right.

Ah yeah the famously equal acts of pirating a game VS promoting illegal unregulated gambling for millions of people (and that's just the tip of the iceberg).

That's why corporations can get away with everything.


You're the only one saying they are equal acts. More than one thing can be acknowledged as a problem at a time.

And something being illegal doesn't make it wrong.

The converse applies to. Just because piracy is illegal, that doesn't make it right.

> I can't think of a single product of theirs that hasn't made the world a markedly worse place

zstd

I’m torn about React and PyTorch :)


They author thousands of open-source. Nobody would consider those 'products' (though feel free to play pedantic). And many would argue React did far more harm than good.

Without React we might not have had the JavaScript framework explosion, we'd all be programming in Angular JS.

Maybe I'm exaggerating slightly, but I think we should judge frameworks compared to what other things existed at the time.

It's, by the way, another example of how the only good thing Facebook did was deny Google complete dominance.


We would still have a framework of the week like we do today. There was a new framework weekly before React and there are frameworks of the week after React. React just gave us one more way of showing text on a screen.

> React just gave us one more way of showing text on a screen.

Well, yes, but... its popularity is not completely accidental. It's good - even by today's standards, but certainly by the standards of the time.


In 2015 I was teaching that React was a lightweight library that simply did function state -> html, codebases were bug-free, snappy and easy to understand. And it was true compared to configuring jQuery listeners the unperformant way into a Rube Goldberg machine of cause and effect.

React was a godsend vs dealing with the Angular $digest loop

NGL I like modern Angular more than React, but I never experienced v1 of AngularJS so I don't know how much of modern Angular is influenced by React.

I like that it's a framework with opinions vs React which is a "Library".


Without React, we might've just used Svelte.

As someone working daily with React, I agree. And I wouldn’t consider it a Facebook product at all. The amount of work they offload to the community is substantial.

We would end up with some other (probably worse) JS frameworks instead, JQuery(shudder) was still big, Angular 1 was a glimpse of something but they went for Angular 2+ that changed everything, backbone js, ember js,etc.

Vue is probably the only outsider of that age that stayed even somewhat relevant (really by just doing what Angular 1 did but correctly), Angular seems to have kinda survived in some niches but other than that I haven't heard of the other similarly aged frameworks in a long while.


React made front end suck. Sorry.

React definitely didn't make frontend _great_ in a lot of cases, but jQuery, mootools, prototype, knockout, ember, angular, and a whole lot more JS frameworks that have come and gone predate React. If React hadn't been invented there'd be just as many poorly developed browser apps as there are today. You can't really pin that on React.

Actually I can pin it on react directly. React was built by facebook to solve a single problem that most developers don’t have: their message count badge would be stale and out of date, their solution was to add global state, eliminate most of the browsers built in features, move away from multi page apps with http calls etc. so all kinds of things got harder like url routing, SEO, server side state management, etc.

But most apps don’t need a persistent counter that updates without browser refresh. Further, there were other easy solutions like http request polling, or even websockets. They weren’t solutions for Facebook because they had to support lots of devices that couldn’t handle something like websockets. But instead of the industry realizing this was a specific tool for a specific niche case we just piled on to the design pattern and built a massive lock in ecosystem that may the web worse.


What I can pin on react is that it is very inefficient with resources using much more cpu power than needed to render some text and images on a webpage. Imagine all the electricity that was wasted because of react and the negative impact on the environment it has had because of that.

React doesn't do anything unless the DOM needs to to be updated.

Arguably React does have a 'disadvantage' in the sense that it doesn't do two-way data binding, and chooses to update as little of the DOM as necessary to render a change (which it's good at, and gets right), but that's sometimes more than just changing a text node or a value. I suspect that if React hadn't come along there'd be lots of homegrown frameworks doing something similar in a worse way. React is well thought-out and well designed.

Also, every reactive framework can have the same problem. It's not a React thing; it's a library-that-tracks-changes-and-updates-the-DOM thing. Used poorly you'll end up in a re-render loop.

We could just have static HTML pages and that would eliminate the whole problem, but then we'd be complaining about the electricity used on network roundtrips and people using badly coded desktop apps instead. Ultimately, libraries can be as bulletproof and fool-proof as you like, and developers will find new and novel ways to use them to build crap software. The responsibility (mostly) lies with the developers much more than the library.


Yea, no, not at all. A lot of websites that use “modern” front end frame works cause high CPU usage. Getting data as need using an event based system is magnitudes faster and more efficient.

I think you might be forgetting how much it sucked before React.

I vastly prefer plain JS over React, but I will admit that React probably was instrumental in helping create frontend frameworks that are actually good, like Svelte. So I will give Facebook credit for that.

Svelte is awesome. Svelte 5's runes are especially powerful because they let reactivity escape the component boundary. The same reactive model works everywhere, whether you're updating the DOM or building plain application logic.

Rich Harris makes the point that React isn't actually reactive: "React doesn’t have any understanding of the values running through your app. It is not Reactive."

Rich Harris - Rethinking reactivity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdNJ3fydeao

>Modern JavaScript frameworks are all about reactivity. Change your application's state, and the view updates automatically. But there's a catch — tracking state changes at runtime adds overhead that eats into your bundle size and performance budgets. In this talk, we'll discover an alternative approach: moving reactivity into the language itself. Your apps have never been smaller or faster than they're about to become.

He starts with spreadsheets as the archetypal reactive system.

Defines reactivity as values automatically updating according to dependency relationships.

Contrasts that with React's model of rerunning component functions and diffing virtual DOM trees.

Argues that React "doesn't understand the values flowing through your application" and therefore isn't reactive in the traditional sense.

Virtual DOM is pure overhead:

https://svelte.dev/blog/virtual-dom-is-pure-overhead

>But it turns out that we can achieve a similar programming model without using virtual DOM — and that's where Svelte comes in.

React tracks component renders; reactive systems track data dependencies. React doesn't react, it repeats.

I think React should have been called "Repeat", "Re-Run", "Regurgitate", or "Retch".


I started with manual ajax calls and browser compatibility issues. It was a painful time. I remember jquery solved some real problems.

But I found the best development cycle as a rails/django multi page apps developer. Anytime I encountered something I needed to update without a refresh it was easy to solve with polling or eventually websockets.


Part of me hopes that without React (poorly) filling the void, something like Elm could have gained traction. But ultimately I think it’s unlikely.

Avoiding traction was a major goal of Elm. The creator was committed to Elm being his personal jewel, not useful for others.

Corporate open-source (Open Source) is done for free labor and PR, it shouldn't be bonus points for any company that does it, unless they commit to it and pay their contributors, have no CLAs that allow them to relicense the work, or adopt practices and licenses that are clearly more in line with the actual spirit of free software. Real free software that should be considered a public good is produced by people, for people.

There are sometimes well meaning people in corporations that do their best to at least get something out there and kudos to them, but corporations running Open Source projects should receive no goodwill for it, it's basically a scam.


Well yeah, you shouldn't give much credit to the corporation, but neither should you backlist all applicants who ever worked for them (as OP says some frontier labs do)

I'm not really commenting on that, I just want to remind people that Open Source is highly overrated and should not be looked at as a point in favor of a company.

While I agree with your point I don't agree that open source is overrated. This movement is one of the greatest developments in modern history, and the fact that corporations have exploited it for their own gain should in no way diminish its significance.

Open Source is the company takeover of the good that Free Software represents, I don't really see it as a "movement" by people. It's set up precisely to exploit the people for free labor and look good doing it.

Just see how the open source initiative runs their "elections"… https://lwn.net/Articles/1014603/

And the kind of founding leaders they elect.

Russ Nelson: "Blacks are Lazy"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Russ_Nelson#Blacks_are_la...

Eric S. Raymond: "The people who knew Russ as a Quaker, a pacifist and a gentleman, and no racist, but nevertheless pressured OSI to do the responsible thing and fire him in order to avoid political damage should be equally ashamed. Abetting somebody elses witch hunt is no less disgusting than starting your own. Personally, I wanted to fight this on principle. Russ resigned the presidency rather than get OSI into that fight, and the board quite properly respected his wishes in the matter. That sacrifice makes me angrier at the fools and thugs who pulled him down."

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47232296

>Guido is not racist like ESR is, and it would have been a disaster to have somebody as racist and obsessed with dragging the organizations he leads into the pro-racism side of political culture war battles that have absolutely nothing to do with their mission, as ESR has a track record of trying to do: He threw down the gauntlet and attempted to drag OSI into supporting Russ Nelson after his infamous "Blacks are Lazy" blog posting that caused him to resign for the good of OSI, who ESR wanted to spend their resources and reputation fighting his culture war against (dog whistle alert:) "thugs" who don't want to follow a racist leader. That kind of blatant racism and totally non-python-related racist culture warfare bullshit political battles would have been extremely detrimental to the python community, just as his other antics and his and Russel's racist rants were detrimental to the open source community. OSI has enough problems attracting women and minorities that they don't need white male leaders telling black people they're lazy and accusing people who disagree of being "fools and thugs".

Russ pulled his own "Blacks are Lazy" post down and resigned of his own free will and was not fired, so ESR was unwittingly calling Russ a fool and thug for pulling himself down, even though he was actually attacking anti-racist people, who didn't believe blacks are lazy, and thought racist white people who publically called all blacks lazy (then patronizingly lectured them on why they are justified to be lazy) didn't deserve to lead OSI.


You find protestant ideology in the weirdest places…

Actually, Russ is a Quaker (or rather used to be until he renounced it for being too "socialist"). He created the first Quaker website in the world, quaker.org, in early 1995.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russ_Nelson#Personal

But his actual lifelong ideological religious cult is Libertarianism, obviously. And they epitomize what's wrong with the open source movement, ESR having based his career on tearing down and shitting all over everything RMS has done with Free Software.

ESR and Russ and their ilk just love playing a tired little game I call "Libertarian Chicken":

https://github.com/SimHacker/moollm/blob/main/skills/no-ai-g...

For many more examples, just look at the decades long consistent pattern of ESR's obnoxious inflamatory posts to the linux mailing lists, before he got kicked off for playing said games.


> zstd

Yes, but also “damning with faint praise” immediately comes to mind


zstd was created outside FB, it's an acquihire.

I've avoided react as much as I could. Maintained a high paying frontend career without react until a year or so ago, when I was forced by management to start using it. Thankfully AI was able to touch it for me while I pinched my nose.

What was your framework of choice if not react, if you don't mind me asking

I will blow your mind: you don’t necessarily need one


Geely +12.6%

SAIC +13.9%

BYD +136.6%

Chery +244.1%

Tesla +107.9%

Leapmotor +465.1%



>typical young nerd from Seattle

Unfortunately I usually meet gopnik and niño rata in Dota and CSGO and not typical young nerds from Seattle


Tangential but I would not want to play CSGO from a couch with a controller, it's already sweaty enough with a mouse and keyboard.

I used to play the PS3 version lol, good times. I've actually just downloaded it last week to run it in an emulator. So nostalgic with the old menu, old weapons, old maps etc. (only works offline against but but still fun)

Prices and I mean the price tag will never come down again. That was an exception for technology and gadgets for a few decades but I'm not sure it will happen again.

Worth watching for the Steam OS problems part

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