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I wanted to like him, but then after watching a few podcast appearances I realized he loves to play every side. He usually just reflects the hosts beliefs back to them.

It also doesn’t help that he’s trying to line up a pardon from Trump, as well.


I'm still surprised at how many developers still turn their noses up at using Linux.

Like... You already use Docker and deploy to K8S... On Linux...


I don’t really care about the OS. I want a beefy laptop with a good keyboard and trackpad, long battery life, and a crisp screen. Preferably very silent, bonus points for a clean design. That’s the value proposition of a MacBook.

I get it. I wish there were more great laptop makers. I had a maxed out 16in M2 Max MacBook Pro, now I have an 15in M3 MBA. I also have a maxed out HP G1A Ultra running Fedora. They’re all excellent.

There are many laptops with similar specs that you can run Linux on, and for less money

Not really. The only thing that comes close IMHO are the top shelf Lenovo X1 Carbon, but even those come with several caveats compared to MacBooks, and the M4/M5 chips are ridiculously powerful.

I’m open for suggestions though


I also care about my desktop supporting consumer electronics without having to waste an afternoon debugging Bluetooth drivers every two weeks

Thankfully, it has been many years since I had to debug Bluetooth drivers (or anything of that ilk) on Linux.

That’s very much not the same thing though?

It kind of is?

Why would you not want your development environment to be as close to your deployment environment as possible? Even MacOS bash commands have hiccups every so often. In my experience working with Linux developers, they seem to know the internals of the servers much better and can optimize/debug prod fast - and this understanding is only compounded with LLMs.

I'm sure many developers would be equally talented at debugging such issues if we deployed on Windows or MacOS, but virtually no one does that.


I do other things on my computer apart from bash.

Docker was designed for Linux, and on Windows you have to run a VM just to let Docker function.

Desktop and server are two wildly different support surfaces

Fair, but it’s electron. They can just add a new target and recompile the native libraries they’re using for Linux.

It’s really not that hard.


People buy Apple products for the same reason people buy BMWs

It kinda reminds me of general relativity and gravity bending space-time. I'm sure I sound nuts right now, but the model fits in my head.

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish anyone? Although, as a Fedora user I'm happy it's RPM based.

Little harder to pull that off when the key components are all GPL licensed, but also all of Microsoft's bits and pieces for their distro seem to be MIT Licensed. Honestly, it certainly feels more like Google lives by Embrace, Extend, Extinguish (email, browsers, video streaming, etc).

You cited three of the most prominent counterexamples to the common meme about Google killing their products as evidence of them extinguishing things. I'm not saying you're wrong necessarily, but I don't think you've demonstrated what you think you have.

The “extinguish” part refers to your competition, not to your own product.

You embrace a popular open standard, add new features to your software that build upon the standard (but are proprietary), then watch as your competitors die off because customers become locked into your proprietary features.

Similar to how Apple hijacked SMS to add iMessage and introduced all kinds of features and the blue/green bubble styling.

For the longest time, they refused to support RCS, trying to keep people on iPhone by making texting between iOS and Android suck.

Of course, a lot of people switched to third party messaging apps because of how much Apple was intentionally ruining texting, so now Apple has had to adopt RCS.

So the “extinguish” part can be hard to pull off given sufficiently strong competition.


The thing is that if step 2 isn't proprietary, but rather more open source code, then it's not "extinguish" it's just garden variety open source competition.

I have gone on websites that stop me from usint Firefox or Safari and tell me to install Chrome instead. Its definitely “proprietary” with make up on it. A lot of official Google webapps have done this over the years too. Its ridiculous.

Even then you can't seem to use RCS from outside of the Apple and Google walled gardens so it probably still counts as some sort of merged extinguish effort.

to be fair to apple one time, RCS is terrible

It’s better than SMS and is the new industry standard.

Also, iMessage kind of sucks too. There are many better messaging apps.

The problem is that many people in the US never even try those. They just see that Androids have green bubbles and cause problems due to SMS.


Hello! I'm a USian, so my telecom situation might be really weird when compared to the rest of the world, IDK.

> It’s better than SMS...

If it guarantees timely and in-order delivery, then yes, it's better than SMS. If it doesn't, no matter what else it does it's just as bad.

> ...and is the new industry standard.

Odd. The only RCS messages I receive are spam. Literally zero legitimate entities send me RCS messages.

Plus, I heard that Google's shipping this "Feed us more metadata about who you're calling and when!" service that's billed as a "Ensure the caller calling you is actually on an Android(TM) or iPhone(TM) phone!" "safety" feature. No thanks.


Don’t use it if you don’t want. I’m not some kind of RCS salesman. I usually use third party apps myself. That doesn’t mean it’s not an upgrade versus SMS.

You:

  I’m not some kind of RCS salesman.
also you:

  It’s better than SMS and is the new industry standard.

Yeah, there’s really nothing controversial about that. RCS is the improved replacement for SMS. That doesn’t mean I care if you use it.

The Google/Apple lock-in is pretty controversial.

> common meme about Google killing their products as evidence of them extinguishing things.

I don't think anyone mentioned Google killing their products? I think you misunderstood my reference that was exclusively Microsoft[0] specific and has nothing to do with shutting down projects. Extinguish doesn't mean close it down in this context. Embrace, Extend, Extinguish was a phrase from some Microsoft exec or VP about embracing some open standard, extending it beyond what it does, and then extinguishing the competition.

Google made Chrome, it was great, then they added things and features that sites often (VERY MUCH LIKE IE USED TO) say "You must use Chrome to visit this website." even when I'm on Firefox, and masking my browser agent enables the website. This is very "old evil" Microsoft like shennanigans.

Google made gmail, people used to have email clients, hell AOL had its own built-in email client with a GUI and all. Now everyone browses email via a browser and is hooked to gmail.

Before YouTube people used Kazaa, Shareazaa etc to share clips much like they do with YouTube, but now there's censorship and automatic censorship via copyright claims that the little guy cannot defend against. I follow amazingly good music YouTube channels that go deeply into how songs are made, which requires playing short samples, its 100% fair use, and gets me to listen to the original songs in many cases, but the record companies want to snag the easy cash so they're heavily discouraged since its time consuming work, fair use, and some goon at a Music company is jut flagging all their videos and profiting off someone else's hard work.

There's also Android, which embraced Linux, extended it and extinguished the competition (Ubuntu phone anyone? You know, an ACTUAL Linux phone).

There's also Google Talk / Google Voice / Google Chat / GChat (and the 5000 other names for it!) which was built on top of XMPP. I even tested logging into gmail once, and messaging my facebook account (FB Messenger used to be XMPP!) and it worked. They eventually shut down the openness of XMPP and closed them up (both Google and Facebook[2]).

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5714557

[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9266769


That's why they're pushing hardware attestation so aggressively

Agreed on the Google front here.

It's too late to embrace, extend and extinguish and Microsoft has moved past that era. I think this is an attempt to gate keep the inclusion of opensource libraries in the distribution that have contributions from unverified users and potential state actors.

Not really. They've always advertised it for, well, Azure, and the actual announcement[0] makes it clear that it's simply a distro for Azure workloads. Considering they state it's "built exclusively for cloud and server workloads, it is not intended to support desktop usage or GUI applications," Microsoft isn't playing that game here.

[0] https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/blog/linuxandopensourceb...


As a Fedora hater, I'm also happy it's RPM based; IMO, .debs are just flat out worse than .rpm as a format and the tooling on top matches that. I do wonder, though:

> Azure Linux 4.0 is derived from Fedora, right now a Fedora 43 snapshot, rather than assembled package by package the way 1.0 through 3.0 were.

Then what's the point? They could just ship Fedora. There are minor differences, but all things that sound easy to get upstreamed with minimal effort.


Same as with any distribution it gives you flexibility over update cadence, validate your software doesn't break with updates, and push out your own hotfixes without being tied to the release process upstream.

Default configurations as well, since it states FIPS compliance it has to change defaults <https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveFipsModeSetup#W...>


Time difference. A VP at Microsoft has someone they can yell at to make an ship a change. Having to ask upstream politely and then wait for their release schedule was proving to be an issue.

Extinguish Windows morelike...

Bingo. Humility over marketing

I also don’t like your framing, here.

We need experts to know when AI is wrong, which it is all the time.

Earlier this week someone commented here that we shouldn’t expect a language model to know that you need to drive a car to a car wash, to wash a car.

So then, what do we expect it to know? Who’s responsible for when it’s wrong?

Also, why can’t Mythos just fix all these issues itself if it’s so smart. And test them to make sure they work?


I actually agree somewhat with jatora. However a large segment of the top ~20% of security folks are being forced to become reverse centaurs, as opposed to centaurs (disempowered vs empowered) due to the factors I mentioned. I genuinely see value in the tech, but it is currently being deployed recklessly and stupidly.

> why can’t Mythos just fix all these issues itself if it’s so smart. And test them to make sure they work?

“Why”: because you didn’t ask it. It’s not its job in this case.

You don’t hire an accountant and tell them “why can’t you fix my cash-flow problems and make me money if you’re so smart”


Ah ok, sure. The difference being the model should know how to do both based on what I’ve been told.

So why didn’t Anthropic ask it for me?


yes it is. all modern operating systems sandbox assembly. that's how it works.

Windows may use virtualization-based security by default, but I'm not aware of macOS or Linux doing the same -- Apple builds security directly into the silicon such that no virtualization is required, and Linux just rawdogs everything.

Whether that counts is up to you. I suppose it's still "sandboxed" in that it runs in a less privileged context than the kernel.


Wow that’s gnarly it’s using dynamic dispatch. I mean I get it, but I thought zig was some sort of performance demon.

if youre doing io, one pointer indirection seems unlikely tp be rate limiting. same for allocation (the other dynamic dispatch in zig)

It's not just I/O, it's also mutexes, condition variables, time, etc. It's not horrible, but it does add up, so calling it super efficient is a stretch.

A modern allocator with per-thread cache can satisfy some allocations in 20-30 cycles - dynamic dispatch can easily double that, even if the target is still in cache.

It's one of these things where it's extremely use case dependant - like many performance issues, you probably don't care about it - but when you do it matters.


Inderect call cost is a few cycles, if predicted. Now, you can argue, that it may be mispredicted and misprediction would cost about 20-30 cycles. But if it is mispredicted, then you are not calling into allocator often enough. And if you don't hammer it hard, then why do you care about preformance?

I believe their plan is using "restricted function pointers", where you can specify that a pointer will only ever be to a function defined in the codebase. I'm pretty sure they also have plans for devirtualization, but I haven't followed super closely.

"you can specify that a pointer"

i dont think you need to specify that. the compiler can figure it out and do an optimization pass at the end.


Oh, is it not a specific keyword? I thought they were thinking of it being a keyword so you could be sure that it was restricted, in case a variable or function was exported that took in a foreign pointer.

There are going to be builtins to control this. The compiler will not do it on its own.

Ok im supposed to assume that a model doesn’t know cars get washed at a car wash?

But then im supposed to give it access to write code in my repositories. Sorry, what are you trying to get at here?


it from bit

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