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Hacker news likes to dunk on Spring Boot, but its usage in enterprises is very very high.

it doesn't mean that usage of something being very high is a clever idea.

lots of people take meth - so are you gonna take meth too.

```@EnableConfigurationProperties(CasConfigurationProperties.class) @EnableScheduling @ConditionalOnFeatureEnabled(feature = CasFeatureModule.FeatureCatalog.SimpleMFA) @AutoConfiguration @Import({ CasSimpleMultifactorAuthenticationComponentSerializationConfiguration.class, CasSimpleMultifactorAuthenticationConfiguration.class, CasSimpleMultifactorAuthenticationEventExecutionPlanConfiguration.class, CasSimpleMultifactorAuthenticationMultifactorProviderBypassConfiguration.class, CasSimpleMultifactorAuthenticationRestConfiguration.class, CasSimpleMultifactorAuthenticationTicketCatalogConfiguration.class, CasSimpleMultifactorAuthenticationWebflowConfiguration.class }) public class CasSimpleMultifactorAuthenticationAutoConfiguration { }```

this is what we mean by "JavaCulture" - java | JVM really wonderful things but the culture is what sets these things back

someone can't just go in and understand things - they have to understand a bunch of notations too.

then if you work at a place and try do things differently the same people will tell you to revise your PR cz it ain't software engineering (or it won't scale)


That's a ridiculously extreme example, IME. Having been working with Java for 25+ years, I've never seen anything like that in code written by a shop I worked at, FWIW. And as a corollary I'm about 100% certain that you could find some equivalent extreme case to use as an example to dunk on any language/platform.

this is what we mean by "JavaCulture" - java | JVM really wonderful things but the culture is what sets these things back

Maybe there are still some Java shops out there living like this. But to me, this is a 20 year old outdated notion. shrug


You have worked at some outstanding java shops then! In my experience the article is precisely representative of Java culture even today

I also have 20+ years of experience and haven't seen that type of code either.

I am however struggling to understand an over engineered Rust "micro" service at work. There's no language or framework that is free from this.

Maybe it's because I have not worked in typical enterprise companies?

Spring Boot can be a really quick way to get things done. My current job is not in enterprise, but we use Spring Boot for most of our services, and rarely have issues related to Spring itself. We have micro services handling many transactions per minute and starts up within 10 seconds. The CPU usage is low and decent memory usage, even on the small pod sizes that we use. There are ways to reduce the startup, but we do not have the need. The code is easy to reason about and new hires are productive within a short time.


Let's not go too far! I've seen some crap code, granted. But for the most part, the crap code I've seen is, I believe, stuff written by people who would have written crap no matter what language they were working in.

That said, I have in fact also had some outstanding and talented colleagues over the years as well. A point that's probably worth reflecting on, so thanks for the reminder.


This is still relatively tame! I've seen stuff where there are layers of annotations some of which will spawn docker containers effectively bringing docker compose into java application as part of the set up. Some containers would need to come up, do a quick file change, then die and the the rest of configuration proceeded (this was for an automated test tool). Entirely stupid, could have been written with just couple classes of Java and a docker compose. But it is a culture. It is a culture that I think ultimately will destroy Java.

FWIW, I think .Net Aspire is pretty interesting along a similar vein. I mostly just rely on shell scripts and docker-compose configuration(s) for dev though.

This is an extreme example, same can be conjured up for any framework, Node or Django or Rails.

dude, that is a configuration.

it is completely declarative and lives in the best place, near your code, not on some other inaccessible repository.

what have you preferred? a json file? a yaml one?

I had them, and I find the annotations are more readable than other solutions.


Exactly!

Huh, Enterprise usage of Blackberry was very very high and then it was not. And at one point SOA, SOAP/WSDL/XML usage was very very high and now I am told in my very enterprise job I'd be fired if I dared bring those names up.

Usage being high doesn't say anything about quality or suitability of a product specially in enterprise settings.


Honestly, it does. Enterprise software does need high reliability.

And startups not in the SV echo chamber. They happily exist and make money without worrying about supply chain attacks and js engine of the week.

Even in startups, lots of places are on Spring Boot (albeit more often using Kotlin over Java).

My favorite stack, Kotlin with Spring Boot. A real delight to work with

Cuisine Magazine likes to dunk on McDonalds, but its the most popular choice of dining.

Yes but enterprise software is some of the worst software you will encounter.

Not Spring Boot's fault :)

Not a strong indicator that Enterprises have good taste though is it?

I'm not that deep into Java, but I was under the impression that things like Quarkus were starting to replace Spring in enterprise use...

We have a medium sized Quarkus app (~200kLOC) and Quarkus has been fantastic. Startup in JVM mode for our app is around 10 secs. Not blazing fast - but likely much faster than a typical Java enterprise app. I'm sure a few of those secs are spent doing things like pulling authz policies from github or due to having several thousand hibernate entities.

It will take some time for Quarkus to become a significant enough presence in the market share. In my experience, for the majority of Java shops Spring Boot does just fine because it worked before and it will probably work in the future.

Quarkus, Micronaut etc. are doing well. But Spring Boot is the giant of Java ecosystem.

it saves a lot of reinventing the wheel

And at the same time, gives you a dozen of footguns. This is just a list for the gotchas in the "@Transactional" annotation - https://dev.to/closeup1202/8-spring-transactional-pitfalls-t...

Now read up on all the dozen of annotations. But yeah, we did not want to "re-invent the wheel".


Im comparing against node equivalent ORMs and find spring consistently better. Yeah ive got to read up on annotations - but when it comes to transactions its always worth revisiting them to check for changes

Meh...

    await using cn = await pool.connect();
    const records = await cn.query<MyType>`
      SELECT ...
      FROM ...
      WHERE ...
    `;
    for await (const record of records) {
      ...
    }
Oh, spring is so much better...

Spring version:

  var records = jdbcClient
     .sql("select * from posts")
     .query(Post.class)
     .toList();
     
  records.forEach(p -> ...);

Half of those are not really an issue with the annotation and seem a bit contrived.

Thankfully the company that wrote the article has a linter/warning product to help avoid those pitfalls.


Fred Lambert is going to have a field day.

And the fact that any CEO would still hold their job after spending billions to no avail, is astounding.


The pleasure people get at seeing Elon's companies failing is astounding.


I'm trans. This man has actively and intentionally made life harder for myself and my loved ones. So yes, I'm going to enjoy any news that weakens his ability to do that, and no, I won't apologize for it.


Which is all media driven mostly and a fantasy.

His companies bring in billions and boost each other up. None can be called company in decline, quite the contrary.


Is it really that surprising? He worked very hard at insulting gay, democrats, Trump supporters, Europeans, Jews, trans... you name it. He also contributed to turning the all political disagreements personal by endlessly making ad hominem attacks. You can't attack the whole world personally and then wonder why they're happy to see you losing power.


Yes, I used to love hacker news but seeing every Trump/Elon related post brigaded by bots/haters/far left loons is disturbing, may as well just use Reddit.


Game theory in action


PSA: This is sponsored by Augment code.


Only until March 6th, I'm selling site-wide sponsorship a week at a time. Those sponsors get no influence over what I write about at all - I started this entire guide without even mentioning it to them.


Thanks, I did not mean it as an accusation of bias. Just something I saw on the page and shared. Appreciate you writing this and sharing.


Despite the historical misadventures of Meta, if people still use their products with an expectation of privacy, it's on the people.


"Thank you for smoking"


This story may be true. But I have read Fred Lanbert articles on Tesla and they are always negative. And in many cases even biased. So I'd take it with a pinch of salt.

It's not like Tesla is failing, they have $40 billion cash at hand, more than many auto company's net worth,it's that people want to believe that Tesla is failing. I hope Tesla succeeds, with or without Musk.


I was just having this discussion in the other thread where people were blatantly lying about Tesla because they hate Elon Musk. Hate him all you want, but his companies are truly successful.


I was just thinking about that the other day while relaxing in my Hyperloop pod from Los Angeles to San Francisco. I was reminiscing about how I'd avoided all the traffic in LA by using the Boring Company's tunnels in my second-generation Tesla Roadster. I'd been in LA for a conference about the hugely successful Starship space launch system, which has revolutionized cost to orbit with fully reusable second stages. When I got to San Francisco, I hopped in a Tesla fully self-driving robotaxi, and when I got home, my Optimus robot served me tea after I instructed it to do so using my Neuralink probe. I then sent a video voicemail to my parents, who live in a city of 1 million people on Mars, which has recently been terraformed. I flipped on CNN and was gratified to see that, for the first time in 25 years, the US government was operating at a surplus, thanks to the $2T of annual savings delivered by DOGE.


Microsoft Bob, Google Inbox and Plus


Good-faith products that launched, were bad ideas, and failed. Musk is absolutely unique in world history for the sheer number of fake products he's used to garner investment (mostly from the government if we're being honest) and then line his own pockets. If Trump is Darth Vader, Musk is The Emperor.


Lol. The million Teslas and Starlink satellites are fake? At least be subtle to lend some credence to your statement.


This is cope sorry.

No honesty in your mostly.


Starship is iterating fast and flying in another 5 weeks. Boring company is executing slowly but steadily, the Vegas tunnel is progressing. Unsupervised robotaxis has started in Austin. Optimus started a few years ago only, it is disingenuous to expect it to be available immediately. Neuralink has 18 patients now. Mars is happening, Elon never promised it will be possible this decade.

Your comment makes it seem that Elon's companies have done nothing. I know you are being disingenuous, but I am trying my luck to respond.


> “Starship is going to Mars at the end of 2026.”

https://www.futura-sciences.com/en/elon-musk-promises-a-trip...

> New video evidence shows that Tesla’s supposedly “unsupervised” Robotaxis in Austin are being closely followed by black Tesla trailing cars with safety monitors inside. Tesla didn’t remove the safety monitors – it just moved them to a different vehicle.

https://electrek.co/2026/01/22/tesla-starts-robotaxi-rides-w...


Lol. So a fully self driving car with a following car is not impressive? Elon over promised, no doubt. But don't tell me their tech is not amazing. Pure vision general purpose autonomy. It's going to be a game changer. It could be late but inevitable.

Remember when it was supervised FSD? They have come a long way.


Consider this: What tech might we have if the entire world economy weren't infested with termites like Musk who lie continuously to pull in investment that could have gone elsewhere?


What are you talking about? Please read Tesla stats.


Tesla's high-priced sports cars are the wrong product. The right product is a low-cost car like the BYD cars that aren't legally allowed to be sold in the US. The US has probably already lost the EV war, and Tesla is principally responsible. Everything Musk touches turns to garbage.


I'm sure the Midas touch of Ford and GM will fix it.


We can both be correct. I'm not saying he's done nothing. I'm saying he lies, A LOT.


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