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Why do their customers tolerate this?! I know some people love Apple (their hardware does look great), but this is extremely annoying.


Because not everyone can be a computer nerd.

Apple has put a huge amount of real effort into direct outreach and support of their customers, really.

Microsoft chased business.

Apple chased people.

Google is chasing its own tail.

For the markup over the retail price of the SSD, someone else does the installation, validation, built dumb stupid restore and backup services to boot.

Dell? Lenovo? Microsoft? Still ramming bloatware down your throat and persona non grata in malls or shopping centers, or wherever a digital nomad might be roaming.

Apple built a hardware and software ecosystem for normies. Free from the Machiavellian incantations of pretentious experts with their opinions on memory layouts, how big their data is, when people just want to edit and backup files.

People think the markup is worth it to avoid IT people. Can’t say I blame them. Have you worked with the “professional” level IT crowd? Alpha bro sausage fest and foot fungus eaters.

That’s why people pay the markup.


>Have you worked with the “professional” level IT crowd? Alpha bro sausage fest and foot fungus eaters.

I work at a network security company and a very small percentage fit your ignorant stereotype of them. Overall its the best group of people I have met in my entire life.

You run into way more "Alpha bro sausage fests" when you hang out with "normies".


I agree with your overall idea, but not your sentiment. I think that plenty of computer nerds use Macs. It's still a popular platform for software developers and computer enthusiasts. There's no need for gatekeeping between "normies" and "computer nerds."


You seem to be really angry at people who make choices different from yours. So much sarcasm and contempt for others here.

Anyway, if you want to get into it... Microsoft dominated the consumer market in the 1990s. The same people you say who were not nerds and didn't care ... Didn't care to get an Apple machine either, they got whatever everybody else got, which were Wintel PCs. Most didn't care if something else had a nicer design or UI or was friendlier or more efficient. It was Win9x almost everywhere.

I think this negates your "Microsoft went after businesses" hypothesis somewhat. They had total domination everywhere, and maybe got a little lazy or complacent and the lead eroded, at the same time Apple got Jobs back and grew as a consumer brand due to iPod etc. But Microsoft is still a major force outside of techie circles.


> Microsoft dominated the consumer market in the 1990s.

Microsoft dominated everything in the 1990s. Apple more or less lost it all.

> Most didn't care if something else had a nicer design or UI or was friendlier or more efficient.

Macs weren't very good in the 90s. They weren't fast, they weren't pretty, and they were quite expensive. The original iMac changed that in a fairly big way. It was more affordable and a lot more approachable than pretty much any other PC on the market and non-business consumers loved it.

Every successive generation of the Mac has shaved of just a little bit more of the consumer end of the PC market. Then the iPad came along and completely crushed the low end Netbooks. So now Apple has much of the mid-low end consumer space with the iPad and the upper end of consumer space (and a big chunk of professionals who have the choice) with the Mac.

Microsoft still truly owns corporate PCs and gamer space though.


Microsoft is definitely not a major force outside of tech circles.

Apple alone sells about the same amount of phones+tablets than all of the personal computers sold in the world (https://www.gartner.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2020-01-1...) and it only has 13% market share.

The PC market is tiny compared to the mobile market.


I used to build gaming PCs for myself and friends, salvage laptops from parts picked up at auction, etc. But I'm no longer interested in doing that. I'd much rather just buy the computer I need and not fuss with it. I think both of those "modes" are completely valid, and it's great that there are many options on the market for people in both groups.

Is it perhaps "annoying in theory" that I couldn't upgrade my Mac's hardware if I wanted to? I suppose so. But I'm never going to want to do that, so I don't experience any practical annoyance. I suspect my experience matches the overwhelming majority of Apple's customers and potential customers.


> But I'm never going to want to do that, so I don't experience any practical annoyance.

It seriously looks like finding an excuse.


Before switching to Macs I used to build my own machines. You want to know how many times I upgraded any of them? Never. Seriously, I specced them out quite generously and never needed to, they lasted as long as I intended them to. Now I’m a Mac user it’s the same thing. I’ll spec out a 27” with plenty of headroom and Ill be done.


> You want to know how many times I upgraded any of them? Never.

I did it several times. Seriously, upgrade is advantage. Some of Apple fanboys can deny it, but better to have that possibility.

And Apple SSD specs in 2020 makes me laughing. But I'm not whining, you want mac - be ready to pay premium price or spend time with hackintosh. It's just business.


Oh come on, Toms Hardware did a roundup of desktop SSDs a few months ago. The iMac drives beat all but one of them, the Sabrent Rocket and that comes in at £750 for a 4TB card.

So sure Apple storage is pricey, and if you’re willing to compromise on performance you can get something that looks equivalent for a lot less, or something actually equivalent for a bit less. But there are a lot of other things about Apple gear you can’t get anywhere else full stop, at any price.


But Apple is supposed to be marketed towards people who don't care about specs.

Why did it suddenly become important in your example?


According to who? Everybody cares about value for money. Specs aren't the only reason a product is valuable though, of course. I pay a mark up on Apple gear because of the value I get from the software and customer service, but I still need effective tools and that means up to scratch spec-wise.


Because it’s the only supported way to run macOS


It is indeed annoying and expensive. I still prefer their OS/hardware combo over anything else on the market. YMMV.


Apple supports their hardware (both repairs and software updates) for much longer than anyone else ever. While I have no qualms about opening up my Dell desktop, I wouldn't dare touch a laptop. Laptops, even before Apple soldered the components in, were extremely fragile. My Sony Vaio for example had a broken key and the only option was to replace the entire keyboard.

In essence, I'd rather go with a company that will fix my hardware even if they charge me for it. Rather than a company (like HTC/Sony) where I have to wait many many weeks if at all and software upgrades cut off in under two years.


But apple laptop repairs are basically the price of a new machine, and they've had severe quality problems for a few years.

May as well but a new Dell every 2 years for half the price


And give up MacOS, Photos, iMovie, Time Machine, a bunch of Mac only apps and those 5K displays? Yeah.... not happening.


I agree it is. I still build all my desktop PC's for myself. I've been doing it for over 20 years, and will do so in the future. Back in the day you could really upgrade Mac's. I had a PowerMac 7500 in which I had upgraded the CPU, storage, memory and Video Cards, even the older MacPro's you could do this. I think you can upgrade the CPU's on the newer Mac Pro's although, it's a decent amount of work to do so.


I have tried linux on a laptop and the battery life was abysmal (it was an older Thinkpad X1). With macos (which I don't particularly like) I get a solid dev experience and reliable battery life. Plus, their hardware is untouchable IMO.

I have a linux desktop that works well, but I can't always work on it unfortunately.


Well, here's my reasoning why I'd happily pay Apple the price for the upgrades: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24052506


I can't remember the last time I upgraded the memory/disk in one of my computers. It really is a non-issue for the majority. There are other issues that are much more important to me.




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