> What examples of people being offended, for being called out for what, did you have in mind?
Just very simple things, like if you were to suggest to someone evidently overweight to perhaps move around a little more or watch their diet, they (or other people for that matter) are likely to call you judgemental and be offended.
Strictly speaking you are being judgemental - assuming of course that like most people that say such things without invitation that you’re acting on a limited set of knowledge about that individual and their circumstances.
It’s one thing to state that collectively, people are more obese these days than in the past, and that certain proscriptions (food intake type and quantity, activity type and quantity) are called for. In most cases such statements would be unremarkable and get broad agreement. But you don’t know me or what I’ve been doing/trying etc, so on what basis do you think you can make a comment like that about me and expect me not to be offended? I find that expectation quite remarkable. It’s not that people are more offended these days as much as it is people find it perfectly acceptable to do and say what in the old days would be considered “rude” or “impolite”. Civility has been upended by “truth telling”. Can’t say I’m a huge fan tbh.
Which is a totally understandable reaction, since you overstepped a line and pretended you have the right to judge others. In my book, you only have the right to do this with your children, until they are 18 or something. After that, you are just being a dick.
Hey no offense intended, but this comment seems hypocritical and self-contradictory. Are you claiming?
1. Nobody has a right to judge others.
2. I judge everybody who disagrees with me to be dicks.
Either your own rulebook applies to everyone except you (hypocrisy) or your premise is false (selfcontradction). If you hold that people should not pretend they have the right to think at others, then you should stop doing so yourself. Or is it not the freedom of thinking but the freedom of speech you dislike? Of course because you yourself enjoy your right to judge others (and have done so here) it follows that your premise is false. Thus, everyone has a right to judge others. QED
The opposite claim is less wrong: nobody has a right to be free of judgement from others. To argue otherwise reduces to: I don't like shame, so I deny its validity by blaming others. Being shameless is some kind of behavior disorder predicate, not a virtue! For example here is some random guy in Arkansas who writes about these topics:
"when disturbed characters do perceive that someone is judging them in a negative manner, they easily think that it’s the other person who has the problem."
The social implications topic came up centuries ago in the Federalist v Antifederalist debate. Where IIRC there was a line of reasoning that the new USA didn't need certain organs of power (law enforcement?) because the 'coercive force of shame' within communities was sufficient to self regulate. I haven't read this stuff for decades but as I recall the counter argument went like: yeah maybe for you guys up north but that only works in your homogeneous post-puritan monoculture... down here in the south we have slave revolts to suppress, er property rights to enforce.
On a lighter note, this whole topic reminds me of:"oh you strenuously object?" from A Few Good Men:
Ah, then, this sounds to me of an example of misaligned ethics (you and example overweight person).
I suppose you could argue about the health and longevity benefits of being low bodyfat, restricting calories, regular cardiovascular activities, these are scientifically documented... however, allow me to assume for a second that you haven't maximized these to their utmost. Do you, personally, fast to the maximum recommended amount, do cardiovascular to the maximum recommended amount, maintain a super cut bodyfat %, etc? Maybe you do quite well, but do you do it perfectly? Never drink alcohol (increased risk of cancer for even 1 drink a week)? Apply sunscreen in all cases you're in the sun (melanoma)? Avoid eating meats (cancer, cardiovascular disease)?
I'm going to assume no, because, what a life, right? You probably make some sacrifices to your longevity, for a life that's a little more chaotic and fun. So now the question is just, to what degree? I think that degree of variability is high, and I think it's perfectly normal to be fat and rational. I'm an example, lol, because I was once 15% bodyfat, 2pl8 lifter, 5k every other day kind of guy, and now I'm 10kg overweight. The upside is I get to eat cake, which I am obsessed with, and sleep in. I found a balance I'm happy with. I fluctuate towards and away 10kg overweight, never over, and have a life I like.
So when you see me fat, are you going to say I've lost control of my life? I think I have things under control. I think my ethics are in line with my actions.
That's part 1 of my thoughts, part 2 is a challenge to you to take some of my values that I'm more than happy to defend vigorously as ethical, and ask yourself (and tell us if you're open to it, I'm curious) what you'd feel if I asked you these questions:
1. If you live in a place that has elections, have you voted in every single election for which you've been capable, after spending a decent amount of time researching candidates first?
2. Do you prioritize taking public transit? Or, bicycling and walking, or similar?
3. The times you drive a private vehicle, do you rigorously give right of way to pedestrians and bicycles, even if it's not strictly legally required to do so?
4. You don't ever litter, right?
5. You regularly attend civil rights protests, right?
6. You write your representative about civil rights and other issues frequently, don't you?
7. You push for open-sourcing any code you write with stakeholders, yeah? And you open source all your personal project code?
8. You support strikers by not buying goods from companies undergoing a strike, and not crossing a picket line, right?
9. You are a vocal LGBT ally, right? And you challenge family and friends when they voice bigoted ideas?
10. If you are a founder or similar, do you follow the principles of fairness in labor by either profit sharing, or incorporating as a co-op?
11. You don't buy from companies that engage in slavery, wage theft, exploitative labor practices, or extreme environmental harm, right? Generally speaking, you check into this before buying from these companies? And you only shop local businesses, rather than monopolizing companies like Walmart?
If you find these questions surprising, tiresome, offensive, annoying, stupid, or ridiculous, can you see how someone might feel the same if you suggested they reprioritize their life around weight loss? Because it's not just a question of ethics and capability of self control for implementing ethics, it's also a question of prioritizing certain ethics.
Obv I wasn't talking about going up to strangers and telling them to put the fork down.
Furthermore: your questions are about ethics, which mine may differ from yours. I wouldn't be offended by such questions and in fact I could quite vividly debate all of them.
However I may be concerned over someone's weight especially if they are close to me, for the objectively indisputable reason of health.
Just very simple things, like if you were to suggest to someone evidently overweight to perhaps move around a little more or watch their diet, they (or other people for that matter) are likely to call you judgemental and be offended.