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Several people in the comments seem to be blaming Github for taking this step for no apparent reason.

Those of us who self-host git repos know that this is not true. Over at ardour.org, we've passed the 1M-unique-IP's banned due to AI trawlers sucking our repository 1 commit at a time. It was killing our server before we put fail2ban to work.

I'm not arguing that the specific steps Github have taken are the right ones. They might be, they might not, but they do help to address the problem. Our choice for now has been based on noticing that the trawlers are always fetching commits, so we tweaked things such that the overall http-facing git repo works, but you cannot access commit-based URLs. If you want that, you need to use our github mirror :)



Only they haven't started doing this right now. For many years, GitHub has been crippling unauthenticated browsing, doing it gradually to gauge the response. When unauthenticated, code search doesn't work at all and issue search stops working after like, 5 clicks at best.

This is egregious behavior because Microsoft hasn't been upfront about this while they were doing this. Many open source projects are probably unaware that their issue tracker has been walled off, creating headaches unbeknownst to them.


Just sign in, problem solved. It baffles me that a site can provide a useful service that costs money to run, and all you need to do to use it is create a free account -- and people still find that egregious.


That's not how consent works. GitHub captured the open source ecosystem under the premise that its code and issue tracker will remain open to all. Silently changing the deal afterwards is reprehensible.


> GitHub captured the open source ecosystem under the premise that its code and issue tracker will remain open to all. Silently changing the deal afterwards is reprehensible.

It still is "open to all", but you can't abuse the service and expect to retain the ability to abuse the service.

Also where is "silently" coming from? This whole HN page is because someone linked to an article announcing the change...

I'm not really a fan of Microsoft anymore, but some of you have (apparently long ago) turned the corner into "anything Microsoft does that I don't want Microsoft to do is clearly Microsoft being evil" and that is simply not a reality-based viewpoint. sometimes Microsoft is doing something which one could consider "evil", but without knowledge that something evil is happening, you're assuming that evil is happening, and that's not really a valid way to think about things if you want to be heard by anyone.


I repeat, this didn't start today. It has been happening for years. And no, browsing a few files or searching for an issue or two, which they totally kick in the rate limit for, isn't "abuse."


They don’t rate limit someone who is browsing with a normal usage pattern. They did for a day or two, then discovered their mistake and fixed it.

> years

No.

> a few

I’ve always considered “a few” to be “between 3 and 12” and 60 is more than “a few”.


I'm speaking from direct experience over the past few years, from my home, work, and outside with a phone. Do you actually browse GitHub anonymously, or are you reflexively shifting blame?

If you need more proof, this is last year:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39322838

And this is another year before that:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36254129

Oh look, there's even visual proof in the discussion:

https://imgur.com/a/github-search-gated-behind-login-BT6uRIe


Yes I actually browse GitHub anonymously. Not always but I do it every day. Never once had a problem.

In another browser I log in because I do work with code in GitHub frequently. I comment on issues and PRs and all the normal stuff.

I regularly drive two browsers, yes. I alternate between them multiple times per minute, often. In one, I am not logged in. In the other, I am logged in.

Not once have I hit any anonymous rate limit.

I respect one’s desire to use something without logging in, that’s fine. But what you do when you use up the free tier of a service is one of the following: A) you pay for the next tier, B) you (in this case) log in so that your usage is no longer considered “anonymous”, or C) you wait for the next usage measurement period to begin so that you can resume.

It’s their service and they can decide how they want to provide it, in the exact same way that you can decide how to provide any services that you might provide.

If it is your privacy that you are considering by not having an account, fine. By making that choice you are limiting yourself to whatever the services you use decide to give you, and you are entitled to nothing.

“I could do more in the past!” So what? They decided to let you do more in the past, and now they’ve decided to let you do less. They don’t owe you free services; you choose to use the free service and by doing so you’ve chosen to be bound by any usage caps that they decide to apply to you.

Nobody owes you free services AT ALL, but you’re getting them anyway. Instead of feeling entitled to more than you’re getting, maybe be thankful for what you have.


> Not once have I hit any anonymous rate limit.

I have a really hard time believing you on this. There's visual evidence from a year ago and it's consistent with my experience. And no, I haven't been hammering their servers.

https://imgur.com/a/github-search-gated-behind-login-BT6uRIe

> “I could do more in the past!” So what?

So, I'll repeat what I said in the first comment that you replied to. GitHub captured the open source ecosystem under the premise that its code and issue tracker will remain open to all. Silently changing the deal afterwards is reprehensible.

> Instead of feeling entitled

Again, I'll just repeat yet another one of my comments. Microsoft didn't just give, they're benefitting massively from open source. And they're looking to extract even more value through data mining from forced logins and stealing GPL licensed code by laundering it using AI. Open source projects that chose GitHub didn't agree to this!

> be thankful for what you have

You can't be serious. Yeah, be grateful for the trillion dollar company buying a service it didn't create, extracting as much value as they can from it in questionable ways and tearing up social contract!


Are all contributors to open source under a lifetime obligation to never change their level of investment?

Kind of a rhetorical question I guess, for a while I maintained a small open source project and yes, I still get entitled “why did you even publish this if you’re not going to fix the bug I reported” comments. Like, sorry, but my life priorities changed over the intervening 15 years. Fork it and fix it.


Microsoft didn't just give, they're benefitting massively from open source. And they're looking to extract even more value through data mining from forced logins and stealing GPL licensed code by laundering it using AI. There's no room for sympathy here.


There’s no sympathy in business. It’s a straw man to claim I’m looking for some emotional response.

But there is obligation. I’m asking if contributing to open source creates an obligation to do so forever, either for individuals or companies.


All contributors to open source are not created equal. It is different when a literal 3 trillion dollar company does it, thus demonstrating they were unworthy of the trust and goodwill put in them. They have the money, they have the cloud infrastructure, they are doing all kinds of scraping themselves.


Who could have known that Microsoft would pull some shenanigans?

Is 20 years too long ago to learn from then?

Embrace. Extend. Extinguish. This has never gone away.


When github was getting popular it was not owned by MS.


When github did not pull this sort of shenanigans it was not owned by MS.


> Several people in the comments seem to be blaming Github for taking this step for no apparent reason.

I mean...

* Github is owned by Microsoft.

* The reason for this are AI crawlers.

* The reason AI crawlers exist in masses is an absurd hype around LLM+AI technology.

* The reason for that is... ChatGPT?

* The main investor of ChatGPT happens to be...?


almost like we bomb children because a politician told us to think of the children. crazy.


That is also a problem on a side project I've been running for several years. It is based on a heavily rate-limited third-party API. And the main problem is that bots often cause (huge) traffic spikes which essentially DDoSes the application. Luckily, a large part of these bots can easily be detected based on their behaviour in my specific case. I started serving them trash data and have not been DDoSed since.


Have you noticed significant slowdown and CPU usage from failban with that many banned IPs? I saw it becoming a huge resource hog with far less IPs than that.


Yeah, when we hit about 80-100k banned hosts, iptables causes issues.

There are versions of iptables available that apparently can scale to 1M+ addresses, but our approach is just to unban all at that point, and then let things accumulate again.

Since we because responding with 404 to all commit URLs, the rate of banned address accumulation has slowed down quite a bit.


you mean AI crawlers from Microsoft, owners of Github?


The big companies tend to respect robots.txt. The problem is other, unscrupulous actors use fake user agents and residential IPs and don't respect robots.txt or act reasonably.


Big companies have thrown robots.txt to the wind when it comes to their precious AI models.


Yeah, they have openly disregarded copyright law, it's not a puny robots.txt file that's gonna stop them.


robots.txt isn't just an on/off switch. You can set crawler rate limits in there that crawlers may choose to respect, and the big companies respect them- because it's in their interest to reduce their crawling cost and not send more requests than they need to.

However, these smaller companies are doing ridiculous things like scraping the same site many thousands of times a day, far more often than the content of the sites change.


I have no idea where they are from. I'd surprised if MS is using a network of 1M+ residential IP addresses, but they've surprised me before ...


Surely most AI trawlers have special support for git and just clone the repo once?


The AI companies could do work or they could not do work.

They've pretty widely chosen to not do work and just slam websites from proxy IPs instead.

You would think their products would be used by them to do the work if they worked as well as advertised...


I think you vastly overestimate the average dev and their care for handling special cases that are mostly other people’s aggregate problem.


Can’t they use the AIs to do it?


not if you vibe coded your crawler


Apparently, the vibe coding session didn't account for it. /s

I would more readily assume a large social networking company filled with bright minds would have worked out some kind of agreement on, say, a large corpus of copyrighted training data before using it.

It's the wild wild west right now. Data is king for AI training.




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